Rcjp's Weblog

October 28, 2009

Book: “Coders at Work” by Peter Seibel

Filed under: books — rcjp @ 11:04 pm

Over the weekend I read Peter Seibel’s latest book in which he interviews fifteen big name programmers using a set of similar questions about their programming approach and background.

Apart from a few slow sections it is a worthwhile read. Most interviews I’ve read before of famous coders gloss over interesting answers, but Peter is a practicing programmer and his personal interest shows through in attempting to dig a little deeper. Having said that, unfortunately I don’t think his probing turned up much gold. If you are hoping, as I was, to glean some productive techniques from these computing gods you are likely to be disappointed.

Anyway, on a first reading at least, I pulled out some quotes I thought insightful:

The physical properties of matter are such that 99.9 percent of the time you can understand it in aggregate. And everything you have to know about it, you can understand from dealing with it in aggregate. To a great extent, that is not true in the world of software.” … L Peter Deutsch

And later talking about advice from Jerry Elkind

…measure things. Even sometimes measure things you don’t think you need to measure. That [advice] had a profound effect on me.

Ken Thompson who, it is rather surprisingly revealed, doesn’t have code commit privileges where he works at Google said

“I’ve never been a lover of existing code. Code by itself almost rots and it’s gotta be rewritten. Even when nothing has changed, for some reason it rots.”

Grouping the interviews collectively is perhaps a wrong of me to attempt, but the book as a whole gives the impression of these hackers with sharp minds, primitive tools and not much interest in the software development literature. Quick to rewrite the code they don’t understand, mulling over problems in their head a few weeks, before jotting down a few data structures and debugging the resulting code with print statements.

I guess the book could have been titled “Greybeards Still A Work” as almost all are old-timers as evidenced by the answers to the usual opening question of “When did you learn to program”. The answer is often a lengthy description of some antique paper tape hardware for which they rewrote the operating system over a long weekend. So I’m not sure this book is a picture of an average “coder at work” and there is also a definite west-coast lisp slant to the book, not surprising really as Peter is a west-coast lisper!

There were a few lines of questioning that didn’t seem to lead anywhere like asking all of them if they’d read Knuths ‘The Art of Programming’ (mostly a little bit) and if they’d used literate programming (nope) and what they thought of C++ (they hated it). But, even with these dead ends, its definitely worth a read if only to confirm there isn’t much in the way of programming magic out there – just persistence and obstinacy and little inhibitions about rewriting code.

Finally, I can’t resist a few of quotes that made me laugh:

The whole Web is built on one mistake after another. We have this big pile of accidents.”…Douglas Crockford

Seibel: I think Larry Wall described [lisp] as a bowl of oatmeal with fingernail clippings in it.
Deutsch: Well, my description of Perl is something that looks like it came out of the wrong end of a dog.

and my favourite quote from Joe

…the problem with object-oriented languages is that they’ve got all this implicit environment that they carry around with them. You wanted a banana but what you got was a gorilla holding the banana and the entire jungle.… Joe Armstrong ”

Right, now I’m off to go and measure something I don’t think I need to measure…

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1 Comment »

  1. Interesting. I can’t resist commenting on that quote from Ken Thompson. I think code seems to rot for exactly the same reason a painting an artist did last year seems to him to be inferior to the masterpiece he’s current working on. With anything creative it seems to the creator that the latest work is always the best.

    I don’t think this is an excuse to constantly rewrite things and abandon old code as rotten. Software engineering, while it has a lot of parallels with art is still engineering in my opinion and in that respect things we create should be both maintainable and maintained.

    Comment by Ivan — October 29, 2009 @ 10:23 am


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